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Map Info

GametypeUT Capture the Flag
Date Added08-26-2005
File Version1.00
File Size771 kb
Player Count8-16 p
Map Descriptionin 2356 the archaeologist GenMoKai found another tomb called Vae Victis. (no mercy in latin) He thought it was maby a good place for the UT, everything was already collapse. The UT agreed for this idea and re-build the place for Capture the Flag
Review Rating --
User Rating6
Overall Rating --


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Map Comments

Vatcilli zeitchef
08-28-2005 04:21 PM MDT
Rating: 9.5 
Great map, Gameplay is smooth. Bots know every way and get every pickup.
Nice layout and the looks of a real classic.
This wil remain on my harddrive for a long time.
The shots are not really taken at the best spots of your map. Maybe taking them on some of the better positions.
I must agree the Z axis could have been a bit better but there is no speaking of a "lack of it".
Anyway I'm not someone who quickly changes his rating
even when it seems to have been a real error which can't be spoken of this time.

Firstly I want to remind you that there are users who like to give a high and those who like to give low ones. You can account me to the high. IF I was a revieuwer I would have rated in a different way but I'm not. After all there are users that rate all kind of crap with tens becouse they "know how to use UED"
Watch this before slamming me about it again!
Thank you! Vatcilli out.

08-26-2005 11:23 AM MDT
Thnx Vatcilli zeitchef for your comment and rating
Im glad you like it :), i was very busy with those bots, they always do it wrong (always take the same way and stuff) but later they do almost always a other route
hehe im also glad you keep my map for a long time on your harddrive :)
thnx Chopin for your rating
but do you call that a comment ??''It's a solid map alright, but pretty bland'', i cant do anything with it, please make a better comment
thnx for making a better comment chopin
i just wanna know what people like and dislike in CTF, thats why i need a better comment ;)
owkee Rob
go ahead of thinking i stole it, and go ahead of thinking you guys didnt notice it. i only needed some inspiration, when i started it looks pretty nice to me, and so i build further with my map
thnx John DiFool for comment and rating
uhhhh why are you talking about the bots routes MORE then about the architecture, only what i get is ''wannabee horus''
thnx Pomperi(:K256:) for comment and rating
finaly someone who dont complain that my maps looks like horus, im not to good with z-axis fights i think, ill try to work on it
(and btw thnx for telling about the wrong readme, i dont replace it becuase i think almost no-one read those things)

08-26-2005 09:21 AM MDT
Rating: 7 
It's a solid map alright, but pretty bland.

EDIT: Okay, what I meant was: The map is built very well, but the gameplay is uninteresting. You should build areas into the map that correspond to particular tactics (i.e., sniper bunkers, jump pads, small hallways with a ripper or biorifle, etc.) to keep it interesting. Remember, most servers run MapVote, and players pick the maps they find interesting, not the ones that have well-built brushes. I'll raise my rating to 7.

08-26-2005 01:13 PM MDT
OMG you stole stuff from CTF-Horus (the flag rooms for example) and thought we wouldn't notice?

EDIT:Don't you whine after me. There's nowhere mention of "inspiration", that's pure copy-paste in the case of the flag rooms and thus rip-off. I didn't rate, you can be happy about it.
Haarrrryy:Obviously you've never heard of conversions, where credit is given when it's due. I feel sad for you.

John DiFool
08-27-2005 10:10 AM MDT
Rating: 3.5 
I'd say it is more of a homage to Horus, as the layout
is not the same at all (other than the flag rooms).

Two problems here, both bot-related: they get stuck
running on top of the flag, and never go into the water,
not even to follow a flag-carrier. The two routes are
probably too linear for their own good. Looking in the
editor, there's a separate section 500 meters or so away
from the main map-an idea which never got used?

The teleporters in the lights are interesting. Fix the
bots and it gets a 5.5 or so.

Edit: This is the second time you've flamed me when I
dare comment on some non-graphic issue. I'm not sure
what you are looking for here, but making a map involves
a good balance between all facets (the classic NC Awe,
Build and Cast). If you continue to skimp on the Cast
parameters, which includes layout and bot pathing, your
much-too-linear maps likely will get little play by
either me or the community.

08-26-2005 11:19 AM MDT
Rating: 6 
Potential work with some cool architecture.
Unfortunately, the gameplay was very rigid and boring.
I only found two places where you could actually fight in the z-axis (sniper-spot and flag-room).
Most of the gameplay was based on running in a long hallway, which got boring after running it the first time. The water part was also pretty slow and boring.
The lighting could use a lot of improvement. Especially the shadoweffect from the windows. There was also some horrible greenings in the passage with the Invisibility.

Oh, and btw; you included the wrong readme in the zipfile. No big deal, but I thought you would like to know :P

08-26-2005 11:29 AM MDT
Rating: 9.5 
so what it looks like CTF-horus, only some parts it is. talk about your maps then, jb-command/jb-gauntlet-iii-130, they look also exact the same with the CTF versions so DONT whine about it
further ctf-skaarjface is a wannabee Face 2

Further with your map GenMoKai
the flagroom looks like horus indeed, but that is not a big problem at all, i always like tomb maps and stuff, you build it damn nice for me and i give it a 9.5 for it

08-28-2005 12:04 AM MDT
Rating: 5 
Actually, vae victis means "woe to the defeated" ;)

This looks promising, I like temple/tomb-type maps. I'm gonna have a look at it and be back with some more comments and a rating later.

Edit: Well, what can I say. I've seen a lot worse but I was hoping for more. Some obvious problems:

* Some places are brightly lit (like the pillar corridors and the underwater area), yet there are no lightsources. Also, the lightsources which *do* exist, like the torches in the bases, do not look like they're actually emitting the light that is present.

* The lighting in some places is too saturated.

* The panning texture in the curved corridors is completely out of place.

* The spawn room is too close to the flag; the enemies you kill on your way into the base will be back and waiting for you when you reach the enemy flag.

* About 85% of the map consists of corridors and long hallways

Overall, this map suffers from the same problem as most maps in this style, i.e. the author seems to have no idea what an ancient place like a tomb would actually look like. It's basically futuristic architecture with egyptian textures. But since UT doesn't really have much to do with realism that may not be a valid complaint.

The map is solidly built however, and gameplay-wise it's fully functional if not very thrilling. It really has potential; if you made it bigger (perhaps with an outdoor area topside?) and not so corridor-laden it would be really good. In its present state it isn't something that I'll be playing a lot though. Sorry if I'm sounding very negative. You seem to know your way around the editor and I have no doubt you are a more seasoned mapper than yours truly. But Vae Victis just isn't anything special in my book.

Tastes aside I advise the persons who gave this map a 9.5 to get a reality check. No map, not even the greatest ones, deserves that high a score. That's the very reason I always disregard user scores and only look at reviewer scores.

Edit 2: @Vatcilli zeitchef: Go ahead and remind me of whatever you wish. The range is 0 through 10. Unless I'm completely mistaken 0 means "unplayable" [and therefore unrateable] and 10 is "flawless masterpiece". Since there is no such thing as a flawless masterpiece (a masterpiece being defined by its -- deliberate! -- flaws), scoring a map like this 9.5 is clearly a mockery of the works of the most gifted mappers. And GenMoKai, no offence OK? This is really a fun, decent map but ranking it amongst the greats is not accurate is it? You have much to learn as a UT mapper, as have I. When people learn to give fair scores, we will both become much better at our craft. So this is not about me not liking your map, it's about Vatcilli zeitchef talking rubbish.

"IF I was a revieuwer I would have rated in a different way but I'm not."

Well, that's just one more reason for me to disregard the user score, isn't it? Your way of rating maps sounds dumb and superficial, so I'll just listen to the NC reviewers, thank you very much. Unless you think this is one of the best UT maps you've ever played, Vatcilli zeitchef, please rethink your score. Randomly dealing out scores as 9.5 won't help anyone. Not people looking for good maps, and certainly not mappers looking for little hints to make their work better. If you tell them their work is a 9.5, they can just sit back and think they've reached the top and nothing they do can be improved. Which is, I'd say, a little counter productive.

08-28-2005 06:13 PM MDT
Can't we all just try to get along?

09-08-2005 02:52 PM MDT
Rating: 7 
hi GenMoKai

I played the map,and it had some nice architekture and gameplay, lighting could have been a little better,
the hallway was a little to long :P
it was nice to see a egyptian style because they are quit rare in ut99 i think

I dont know if it is mentioned before,but youve included the readme of last catacomb :P

anyways nice job

09-08-2005 06:09 PM MDT
I won't rate the level, because I haven't played it yet. I did download it, and opened it in UT.

Roamed the level for a while. Some parts are ripped from horus, and it's not limited to the flagchamber, but ok.

Nothing mentioned about in the readme...

Anyway, as far as looks go.. this map would have been ok back in 2000-2001. Nowadays, at least for me, it just doesn't cut it anymore.
It is indeed bland, monotonous texture choice, hardly any detail. A shame really, because UT is capable of a lot more =)
It doesn't sound like it once had been a tomb.

I can't possibly be impressed with a map like this when there are maps like f.e. those from the "flagsoftime mappack". Ok, not everybody can map like that. But still, as far as I'm concerned, the bar has raised for UT mapping :-I

But that's just looks so far.

12-01-2005 06:13 PM MST
Rating: 1 
... fair rating... bloody-ripping of CTF-Horus brush work. The "original" sections are imediatly recognizable. 2 routes to each base area, each consisting of silly one-way path/corridor (the actual corridor with items aplenty), and then a sniper spot at the end of said corridor, if it wasn't already obvious the dumb gameplay inducing characteristics of a straight corridor. Other route is just a detour at each base (so, the corridor remains the sole meaning to reach the enemy), to get to and out of the flag room. If the flag carrier doesn't get caught at the flagroom or underwater, then there's going to be awelcome party waiting at the predictable -one- exit (or FC will drown).

The README file is from DM-LastCatacomb or some cr4pp alike, as the author stated, no one seems to ream these files so, why bother... well, to give some credit to the original person that had the work of building the brushes you used, that's why...

Even if i look away from the irritant detail that is GenMoKai's complete lack of respect for another mapper (and players), and ignore the CTF-Horus (download this map instead, NOW) whole thing, this map is a bland-looking waste, with bare/no BOT support, and plays generaly like shit (A.K.A. CTF-Face). AVOID THIS MAP.

AWE: 0.5
BUILD: 0.5
CAST: 0.0

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