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Map Info

AuthorSicko Teddy
GametypeUT Deathmatch
Date Added07-19-2005
File Version1.00
File Size1.94 mb
Player Count4-10
Map DescriptionThe map was created based on HOUR's Cave tutorial in 3Dmax. I decided to take a chance and see if it will subtract well in the UED as a BSP complex piece. For my surprise it turned out safe and no BSP holes.(well they started to appear when I added few UED brushes...) Anyway , I got happy with the result!

Watch your head because the cave is not stable and the rocks will fall, giving a kill score for the one who called the stones to fall!
Spooky Nali Ghosts walk around the caves knowing that the cave is not their anymore.
PLEASE NOTE- there are no health vials.. instead you better grab the NALI FRUITS to get health.
Feel free to comment.

(here is a link to HOUR's cave tutorial- )
Review Rating7
User Rating7
Overall Rating7


ReviewerGnome and SapperAwe Score: 3.0/3
Date08-10-2005Build Score: 1.5/3
Review SchemaCast Score: 2.5/3
User Point: 0
Overall Score: 7/10

REVIEWER: Gnome and Sapper
DATE: Friday, August 12th, 2005

by Sicko Teddy

AWE: 3.0
BUILD: 1.5
CAST: 2.5


SAPPER: So let me get this straight...we're inside a great big mine dug out by Nali slave labor before the Skaarj killed them all and then we came along and killed the Skaarj. So now the mine is shutdown despite the fact that it's still chock full of valuable resources for the sole reason that ghosts of former Nali souls now wander the caves for eternity. Not to throw you under the bridge there Teddy but that's really reaching.
GNOME: This kinda reminds me of Red vs Blue when Church dies and he comes back as a ghost and then Tex dies and she comes back as a ghost too.
SAPPER: You're reaching too Gnome. But that's okay. Here, let me help you push you over the edge...
GNOME: Get away from me.

SAPPER: I'll be right back, I have to go to the washroom.
GNOME: Thanks for sharing. Carrying on here, a good word to use here would be genuine. Another good one would be authentic. You could also use realistic. Absolutely no mistaking you were in a mine. Absolutely no mistaking you were in a cave either. A perfect blend. Nali fruit/vegetation, big crystal fragments, a pool of water, some sort of storage area filled with crates to add some color and variety and something to look at. It's absolutely wonderful to see something out of the ordinary conceived so well. I was going to rate this less than a 3.0, but decided that I wouldn't let the Awe suffer because of the Build. I also came to this conclusion by openine up UEd and seeing first hand just how wonderful the use of lighting is. So yeah, just like in basketball, 3 points.
SAPPER: Okay I'm back. Sorry. I had to take a major-

SAPPER: Mirror, mirror, on the wall...
GNOME: I just know that I'm gonna get arguments from users as well as fellow staff member on this, but I decided that although there were a great numbers of HOMs in the maps including one giant one that may throw you off the first couple of times you see it, I figure that you couldn't really build a map like this without encountering a few of them and there's nothing you can really do about it. Besides, if you're into the game, what's a few HOMs right?
SAPPER: Okay everybody! Start arguing. Couple of BSP errors, no less than a dozen HOMs. Definately some big old minuses here.
GNOME: But this map manages to get some of those lost points back. Sound effects were great. The ghost nalis were pretty cool. At some point I had managed to move some of the coal carts around, but I'm not sure how. Oh yeah, and there were periodic rock slides that could pulverize you with falling boulders. The slides were triggered some how so kills from slides were credited to the player who activated the slides. However, good luck trying to figure out how to activate them.

SAPPER: I think the build took away from the gameplay/playability a little bit with the BSP errors. I hated having to jump or move over an inch just so I could run alongside a wall while strafing a dishing it out.
GNOME: Flow and item placement are superb. Removing the health vials and replacing them with nali fruit added a new level of gameplay as the fruit is generally harder to see than the vials. Weapon choices and locations all seemed to play out pretty good. Bot-pathing was great. Players wouldn't be missing much if they played a botmatch as opposed to an online bloodmatch.

GNOME: I think this is a great map. It's good points and totally awesome points definately outweighed its bad points.
SAPPER: I look at things and give them cool points. This map, +50. Gnome, -160.
GNOME: Some day, Sapper. Some day I'll be able to live my life without you around.
SAPPER: You'd have to win the lottery first.
GNOME: Whatever. That's it for this week. We'll see you all again on Monday.

Map Comments

07-19-2005 04:04 PM MDT
Rating: 7.5 
This really seemed like a cave system, good use of the z-axis. Lighting was generally sourced, with orange and blue providing a nice contrast. There was the odd HOM here and there but nothing catastrophic considering the geometry. The map was created in 3DSMax which gave it a nice rounded feel. There was a good use of decorations - beams, lanterns, crystals, etc, to add to the atmosphere. In some places it felt rather homogeneous however and it was hard to tell where I was. This is counteracted by my next point though...

The map has a nice flowing layout, with weapons scattered randomly which I found made the gameplay quite fast paced. The special items were liberally distributed as well. I found I was never short on ammo, but usually short on health, and would have appreciated a few more health vials or medboxes.

There were lots of interesting gimmicks in this map. the occasional beast roar added atmosphere, and the ghostly nali was an interesting addition, although their constant whining became grating after a while - maybe you could have set them to ignore players. I was a bit dubious about the rockfalls - unless I'm mistaken, sometimes one player gained a kill when another player was killed by rocks. Also this kind of danger element is not totally suited to a DM.

Bot pathing seemed good; they got all the items and I didn't see them get snagged up anywhere.

Overall a solid map which is pretty fun to play. Just a small point, you could put a recommended number of bots in your map's properties. After some experimentation I reckon about 2-4 is a reasonable number.

Fair point about the health, I didn't notice the nali fruits in the frantic action! Sorry. As for the falling rocks that's cool that you planned it, I was just wondering whether it was accidental or not.

As for the score, it seems that maps that are similar in quality to the best Epic maps out there get 8/10, totally exceptional, Unreal maps get 9-9.5, and nothing gets 10 apart from joke maps! My score was a bit harsh and since you've pointed that stuff out I've changed it to 7.5. There are still other issues like the fact you get hurt when you hit the floor after spawning in that tunnel in the celing - hardly the best way to enter combat.

Sicko Teddy
01-16-2006 10:29 AM MST
Erm- you need health- just grab the nali fruit. I used them instead so they fit the atmospheare better.
The stones are triggered randomly by some players and they do gain point!

Can you explain what happen to the rest of your rating score? What are the disadvantages that caused
-3.5 drop?

LOL! using 3Dmax is not cheating my friend! Even DR Hour used 3Dmax when he was mapping for UT!
Also- you don't judge how the map was built(in what program)it even sounds funny!! you judge here on the criteria! LOL.

EDIT- LAG is something wrong on youyr side my friend! it worked excellent on my machine!(abd the other guy that commented on it did not mention that at all!

EDIT- Thank you!
yeah the falling thing from the dark tunnel turned out a bit harsh landing..
I wanted to put lot more stuff, but you see that some dudes already complains about FPS! (I'm surprised by that...)
Please note that this is my "side work" map..
My main project (ONS map for UT2k4) is in progress..
I am working on it 1.5 years!!! (well including my older version of that ONS map that seemed to have cramped roads. So I started it from 0 about 0.75 year ago :) . Comping out fun, a bit hard to ride around but very unique style.
TO MOZART- you seem to cantradict to what you are saying-
you say you got low FPS but then youre asking for even more details! I know mines have rails and other stuff but then you will wine about FPS again!
In regard about the special effects like flooding- HEY- show me at least 1 UT99 map that has that effect! Collapsing floor is not for DM but for single player!

lot of bugs?
That's strange, because when I made my last test I did not find any while running around the whole map.
About the visuals- hey - in UT2k4 its even harder to see enemies! But the homs and bsp holes, that's very strange.. Never bumped into any dirung the test play.. :|

-EDIT4 (to Deathblis)-
here ya go-

OOH! thank you for the review!
I appreciate it! Yeah , the BSP errors came along (BUT THAT HAD HAPPENED WHEN I ADDED UED's BRUSHES! THEY SEEM TO HAVE SOME WIERD AND UNWANTED POLYGONS. i proved it when in UT2004 I converted a brush to static mesh and saw several polygonsa one over another!) Next time I will try to make the whole level in 3Dmax and then import it and texture it. Let's see what happen to BSP's then!
And Thanks again!

Edit- thanks for feedbacks! I will think of doing something lot more pretty and bug free.
Thanks Again!

08-11-2005 06:19 PM MDT
Rating: 6.5 
Maps with hazards and things going on in it are a good thing.
And using 3dsmax for making maps feels like cheating,heh but is cool.

I will check it out,also ut2004 is gone from my drive,UT still holding out real fine.
Specialy 7Bullets.

Well I checked it out,the bsp holes don't bother me too much,and it has a cave effect,pretty good for being an original mapped map.

The thing is,is once you seen the first place you see when you land in the map,tunnel after tunnel after tunnel after tunnel,after tunnel,you wind up in the same looking tunnel.

There should of been an exit to the place and some other things in there to know ware the hell your at.
Very redudndent,even though you used nice coloration and things it just goes round and round same looking forever.

Allthough I know you wanted things like the rocks and the nali,those nali seemed to be in your face and got annoying very fast.You shoulda had those nali doing somthing rather than following my mangey ass around.

Not too bad for the idea,some cool lighting,but it ends up to be a --hallwayed to death-- map,no ryme nor reason just run run around and around.

It would of been more fun splatting real nali,then have thier ghost come after you ,hehe.

oops forgot,ya the FPS got bad here and there,but not totaly enough to complain,ran well enough.
And the score should be a tad lower,however I appreciate the extra stuff in there,not just a regualr map,like the .u file and effort to make it somthing new.otherwise about a 5.

07-19-2005 09:41 PM MDT
Rating: 6.5 
the map is nice. nice lighting, but the nalis following you kinda bugged me. there was some bad framerates, but nothing too horrible. all in all, its a nice map.

07-21-2005 10:42 AM MDT
Rating: 5 
I start out my map testing by going into a map with 0 bots, I then run around and check the layout and flow and look for any HOM or BSP holes that will ruin the gameplay, I also look at textures and lighting and how it effects my eyes, and listen for any cool ambient sounds, after that if the map is worthy I will add bots and check its gameplay and pathing. I am sorry to say this map did not make it to round 2, you said before a complex brush can be made in StudioMax with no BSP problems, well I guess its my vid card then because I found many BSP holes and multiple HOM problems through out this map, also the moans and cymbal sounds just got to be way to annoying, but what really stopped me from playing it with bots was the effect the textures and lights had on my eyes, it may just be my gamma and brightness settings but this map was just bugging my eyes after awhile. Overall a cool concept and a cool look but it just doesnt seem to combine well sorry.

07-21-2005 01:51 PM MDT
Rating: 5.5 
the same as IndySkyz, there are a lot of bugs in it

07-21-2005 11:20 PM MDT
Say could we get a link to this tutorial?
- Deathbliss

07-22-2005 04:30 AM MDT
Rating: 6.5 
The map looks pretty nice. I like specially the ghost nali's and the rock avalanche.
But overall the map has too little to offer, its still a bit to plain.
I think it would have been better if you would have hang the lights to the ceiling, but thats just a small detail.
I think this map could have been a lot better if it had more variation in it.

08-13-2005 07:49 AM MDT
Rating: 6 
the caves are nicely designed,
ligting could be less colored imo,
there is one bsp error in the water that instantly killed me when i walked over it
the falling rocks are a bad idea imo
it didnt run very smoothly either
nice ambience, nali should be set to ignor players
but an original idea

08-15-2005 03:35 PM MDT
Rating: 6 
Meh, good concept and I like the idea, but it's rather difficult to navigate through the mines. I did a DM with 6 bots, and one bot got 5 kills before I could find anybody, and I died quicker than anything :/

Maybe that is just on account of me sucking, but meh.

good map anyway :D

08-17-2005 08:30 PM MDT
Rating: 3.5 
OMG WHY have i to bother with these Nalis!
I find this map quite one of a kind, as I have not come across many comparable. BUT the Nalis following the player is really annoying. Their voices. If you would make a ][ version maybe you can fix that, some Deco things being halfway in the earth, and the HOM of course. Maybe make a XL version instead a common ][, with a
a big abyss and wooden walkways (some broken).
The walls are all not aligned either, well that will take sum time I suppose.
You put too much work in its details to let it get away with these flaws unfixed.

08-19-2005 02:17 AM MDT
Rating: 9 
I didn't think the Nali were annoying at all, I thought they were a nice addition. The most important aspect of this map is it's originality, there are no other maps like it that I know of. This isn't just another collection of rooms and hallways like most other maps are, it actually has some original gameplay elements, and so I think it deserves better than the 5's and 6's some of you guys are giving it. Yes there is an HOM in the map, but a very small one and in an unimportant area, and it doesn't affect the gameplay at all.

12-18-2005 07:31 AM MST
Rating: 10 
This is far out the most fun DM map i've ever played!!
All the stuff that is happening while playing and all the looks... i just gave a good feeling... a damn good feeling... no no not like that you preverted!!

12-31-2005 05:27 PM MST
Rating: 7.5 
I liked this one a lot you might feel a little uncomfortable the first few times you play in it. But then you get used to it and that's when you can really appreciate this beauty.

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