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Map Info

GametypeUT2k3 Capture The Flag
Date Added01-02-2003
File Version1.00
File Size7.03 mb
Player Count4-8
Map DescriptionNone
Review Rating6.5
User Rating8
Overall Rating7.5


ReviewerMister_ProphetAwe Score: 2.0/3
Date01-03-2003Build Score: 2.5/3
Review SchemaCast Score: 2.0/3
User Point: +1
Overall Score: 7.5/10

As most of you know, this map has recently recieved the Cliffy B official seal of approval. For most of the community, this automatically scores this map celebrity status....or at least it should have by now. The map has been created by veteran mapper Plutonic, who has made many popular maps for UT. Does Plutonic pull off a truly Ownage worthy map? To this reviewer, yes.....and no.

Visually, the map is very impressive. The map is set in a rather unique theme for a change, a Urban city that has been the subject of some sort of nuclear holocaust, either from natural diasters or nuclear war. Instead of going for a cliche idea of simply making a nuked city as the map (though, with this author, it may still have been cool) Plutonic goes for a rather unique perspective. Imagine if you will, the ground of a city that has collapsed into the Earth and swallowed by twisted steel and a blanket of scorched concrete and debris. Fallen roads stinking from collapsed underground cave walls with old decayed vehicles piled up and hollowed out buildings that are nothing but skeletal remanants of their former selves, make up such sights. You see many broken pipes emitting flames with gnarled gurders creeping from the rock. Theres even some flooded areas that have no doubt been filled with long showers of acid rain (nice touch). The sky sits overhead, scorched by ash and radiation.

Based on looks, I can easily see why Cliffy gave this map an Ownage. True, it isn't perfect, but it is probably one of the best looking UT2K3 map I have yet played (finished anyway), and with a theme that kicks Epic's ass. Forget CTF-Magma, or the laughably overrated CTF-Maul, this map gets the 'scorched earth' medal right here. No huge massive terrain that takes forever to walktz around, No massive sky with a bunch of colors and towering structures in the background, this map takes the wasteland theme to where it works best, hidden inside the dark places. And with all this visual appeal going for it, and all its originality in the looks department........ the map runs into a brick wall and smashes itself apart like cheap jam.

Gameplay. This map is small, thats fine. You can have 2 on 2 matches easily, thats fine. You can find every weapon and item within easy reach or under some water for a nice risk factor, thats fine. What isn't fine is that the layout and gameplay doesn't quite match the originality of the looks. The map repeats the same problematic issue so many original 'looking' maps have had before it. It does NOT offer anything new here we haven't seen. The looks are so good that they almost blind you to the fact that the map is basically a matching base setup, you know where both bases are nearly identicle and the whole map is basically a reflection. Coret, Face, Magma, Lost Faith, Face ][ , LavaGiant, Citadel, blah blah blaaah. This layout turns this into a prettier version of what we've played a thousand times over and a thousand times too often. All this map needed was an original layout and BAM, it was there...on my harddrive forever, but why? Oh why oh why Plutonic? You may have scored the Ownage and congratulations on it, but the map falls short of owning me in the gameplay department, and my overall fun while playing suffered the second I realized I was playing CTF-Coret only with a theme that looked good.

The Prophet's Verdict: No matter what I say, I expect people are running to cut my sac off for this review, but you have to ask yourself, 'Why am I still playing the same CTF map?'. This map is a brilliant example of what it means to offer satisfying visuals but standard gameplay. Everyone wants to shag the Super Model with the perfect form, the purest skin, the prettiest eyes, the perfectly rounded breasts and cheekage, and the easiest to seduce with a simple ' hey babe, wanna ride the rocket man?'. But after you've had 100 or so of exact duplicates of the same good looking but mentally shallow, uninteresting, and predictable women, you have to ask yourself....' Do I want something more?'

Map Comments

01-03-2003 03:37 AM MST
Rating: 9 
Only 6.5/10 ? :)
Great CTF map, much better than most of the regular ones imo.

01-03-2003 08:45 AM MST
Rating: 8 
Well deserving of ownage, I find myself playing CTF on this map more than I do the ones 2003 shipped with. Get this map now!

01-03-2003 06:10 PM MST
I feel a distinct need to respond to this review as I feel it is has been unduly harsh and that what ever criteria have been used to determine the rating are at, the very least, unreasonibly skewed.

I appreciate the comments about the theme of the map and accept that the map does not offer anything new in terms of game play. But there is a reason and it is quite simple: symmetrical maps with two similar bases separated by an open mid-field and intersecting paths offer the most reliable game play. Maps that offer something original in terms of game play are very difficult to get right and more often than not are miserable failures. The problem is determining which of the commonly held level design 'rules' for CTF maps can be broken. And seems to me that most 'original' game play maps do not get accepted by the online community simply because the map author has broken the wrong CTF 'rules'.

So the bind a level designer faces is this: does one make a map that offers something new in terms of gameplay and run the risk of it not being played? Or does one make a map that effectively uses new technology and stick to the tried and true game play 'rules' in the knowledge that at least the map will be played?

So Mister_Prophet, what are you wanting to see in a CTF map? And more importantly, you need to ask yourself: how much emphasis should be placed on 'original' game play when determining a rating? Because it looks to me that the three criteria listed in the review - Awe, Build and Cast - don't even address game play. This is further compounded by the fact that the scores you have given for these criteria do not seem to match your comments.

Finally, I fail to see how this map is anything like the game play of CTF-Coret.

01-03-2003 07:06 PM MST
Rating: 8 
Proph, this review sucks... The game play is nothing like face, coret etc. In fact it's a pretty good gameplay and layout, nice, ig, open ended flagrooms. The two bases layout is in everything. If your problems with this map are anything to go by, you'd ahve to make a relly unbalanced map to make a good map.

01-03-2003 07:10 PM MST
Rating: 8 
I realize that this is either the first, or one of the first, of Mr. Prophet's reviews, but just like I got slammed for rating some maps too high when I first got started reviewing Unreal levels back in the winter of 1998, he's going to have to take his hits on this review.

my overall fun whileplaying suffered the second I realized I was playing CTF-Coret only with a theme that looked good.

This level doesn't look like, feel like or play like CTF-Coret. Not at all. I don't have a clue what the reviewer was thinking about.

You can have 2 on 2 matches easily, thats fine.

Actually, it plays better 3 on 3, or even 4 on 4, as a small stretch. It would be too easy to cap on this level with 2 on 2, wouldn't be much fun at all.

What isn't fine is that the layout and gameplay doesn't quite match the originality of the looks. The map repeats the same problematic issue so many original 'looking' maps have had before it. It does NOT offer anything new here we haven't seen.

Huh? CTF-Unearthed has a very functional, well thought-out layout. You have several z-axis levels to run through, and even a little underwater action (if you want the flak cannon). I would have put the Rocket Launcher underwater (more powerful weapon, riskier weapon placement), but that's just me.

I'm guessing that the author didn't like the fact that, while you make some small twists and turns, you basically go in one direction to get the flag, turn around and run in the other direction to cap. Well, guess what? That's what a symmetrical CTF map is.

Frankly, I think players will enjoy the layout, which perfectly reflects an underground facility that has been carved out of the planet with explosives, with slabs of rock jutting out, exposed steel cabling from blown out concrete, etc. Multiple paths to and from each flag room. It's crooked, uneven, and a pain in the ass. Wonderful stuff.

Anyway, more of my own feelings on this level, pro and con. Frame rates are good, bots play well (I like where he's put defensive positions for the bots), spawn points are well-picked too. Weapons/items are appropriately sparse, and other than the rocket launcher, well-placed. Map size is a 'tweener' - I would have made it either a little smaller or a little bigger, preferably a little bigger (I like CTF maps that can effectively support 5 on 5). Lighting is very good - Plutonic had wrangled with UnrealEd and managed to get things pretty straight here.

Bottom line: this is a very, very good map, and it's going to see a lot of downloads and a good deal of online play. There's a lot of crap out there for UT 2003 right now. This isn't one of those levels. My verdict? Recommended!

As for our new reviewer, Mr. Prophet, I encourage you to speak your mind, but whether you know it or not, you're off base with your comments, if not your score. For the record, Nali City reviewers can only score 0-9 in increments of 0.5, so a 6.5 is on the bottom end of the top third. As I'm commenting as a user, my rating range is from 0-10 (whole numbers only), thus an 8. So, while my rating as a reviewer would have been a 7.5 (only one point higher than Mr. Prophet), it's the comments that differ here. I'd like to know what the rest of our visitors think about CTF-Unearthed. Download it, play it, and come back to comment on it!

01-03-2003 07:28 PM MST
Rating: 8 
This is one of the best CTF maps out there, simple as that - in many ways superior to most of the retail ones. It looks awesome, and plays pretty damn well too. Granted, there are minor flaws - a few issues with the botpathing and such - but I'm nitpicking as always. Fact is, I've been playing this map a lot, and I'm still doing so - it's a keeper for sure.

That aside, there's no reason to lynch Mister_Prophet. A review is, after all, a personal opinion - there are guidelines to avoid too biased results, but it still boils down to whether the reviewer had fun playing the map or not. 6.5 isn't a bad score, anyway.

01-03-2003 08:08 PM MST
Rating: 7 
I like it, it's a good map and will stay on my hard-drive for quite a while. But it's certainly not ownage material IMO, although I do think it's worth 7/7.5.

Visuals are good, not great, gameplay has good z-axis. For a CTF map it's certainly not boring in the gameplay department. I like my visuals to have a lot more flair and style though. The bots play well too. This is a good starting point for Plutonics ut2003 mapping career and I can't wait for more.

01-03-2003 09:03 PM MST
Rating: 7 
The custom static meshes and the way they are put together are nice, real nice. Reason enough to give this map a higher score than some other maps that have come out... (i.e. mine) o_O

Yea the gameplay is a bit limited... but it's not that bad. Doesn't play any worse than 90% of other CTF's out there. I'll keep it. Good for smaller player loads.

01-03-2003 08:55 PM MST
Rating: 8 
im doubting between 7.5 and 8, cause of the pretty washed out light. but considering the fact that this engine has such a horrible light, you can hardly expect to have a real nice light in a map
so cause of that, and cause i simply cant select a 7.5, i would give it a 8
floorplan and gameplay, tho i get stuck at times, is alot better then most of the epic/de maps
its a rather original theme, and well executed with the details, and custom meshes !
so 8 for me

maybe some more sound btw ?:) cant remember i heard alot of atmosphere creating things

01-03-2003 09:03 PM MST
Rating: 8 
Great map, visuals are fresh and exciting, and not to mention it plays better than half of the maps which shipped with 2k3. This is the only custom CTF map I have installed, and I'm sure this will hold true for some time. Good work, Plutonic!

01-04-2003 03:15 AM MST
Rating: 8 
First off this map is a good looker. I've been working with the new Editor since the game hit the shelves and had downloaded this map when it first appeared on Ownage2.0 What Plutonic pulled off is a playable and visually compelling map. No easy thing. Perhaps on the difficult side to navigate and does require more than a TV commercial attention span to learn. My tip is use your Translocator more during combat and do a fly through beforehand.

Second, reread the Schema ppl (there's a link at the bottom of the page). CAST most certainly covers "gameplay". No question this map AWEs with its well executed theme, and the BUILD is clean. While I'm not going to argue over even a few points, it is precisely why we have user comments to offset the overall score if anyone should agree/disagree.

Last, email me the address of this super-model hang out...

01-04-2003 05:07 AM MST
Rating: 7 
This map is pretty well made; I had fun with the layout. Another good thing is that it looks original.

However, I thought some of the textures were ugly and not scaled very well in some parts. The lighting is totally boring too. Add to those points the fact that I get snagged in quite a few areas, and find dead bodies falling through the ground in some spots and I must detract from an otherwise high score.

I think you should have put more work into it Plutonic, but that is your business.

01-06-2003 11:31 AM MST
Rating: 9 
I really really enjoyed playing this map, it's got a great atmosphere and solid gameplay. :)

BUT Plutonic, you've really messed up with the collision behavior of your meshes: Karma controlled ragdolls just float through them. FYI, here's why and how to fix that next time:

In the properties part of the static mesh browser you see three collision options: UseSimpleKarmaCollision, UseSimpleBoxCollision and UseSimpleLineCollision. LineCollision refers to traces, i.e. Shock beams or the like, Box collision iirc refers to projectiles, players and bots, and Karma collision refers to ragdolls. Now, what does it mean if this is turned on or off? If one of these is set to true, the simplified collision box is used to determine collision for the specific type. You have set Karma and Box collision to true (which is default anyway, I think), but unfortunately there are no simplified collision meshes... So ragdolls just don't collide.
(I don't know why it works with players (Boxes) then, but maybe the engine is a bit more witty there :) )

I can't tell you how to import collision meshes though, never done that yet. I think the UDN or the "UT2k3 Mod Questions" thread on the PolyCount BBS (2D&3D Discussion) has information about that.

Cheers, and when's for the next map? :)

EDIT: Rahnem: Someone deeply involved in the clan scene once told me that he thought all available CTF maps were boring because of the symmetry. He said balance would be achieved by switching sides after a match. And... look at all those Real World maps for all those sucky tactical shooters that are played so much, none of those is symmetrical, yet the good ones of them are absolutely balanced. Ah whatever, just my 2c

01-04-2003 12:11 PM MST
Rating: 8 
Great map, Plutonic 0wned me with his UT stuff and its great to see he has improved even more with UT2003. More of the same please :)

01-04-2003 01:28 PM MST
Rating: 8 
It's original, it's full of nicely modelled static meshes, it runs fast and it plays well.

IMHO, giving a map like this 6.5 is a classic example of why NaliCity has been slated in the past for it's the trend going to continue? And the whole Coret thing - what the bejesus? And don't even get me started on that last paragraph... Reviews are subjective to personal opinion of course; perhaps you folks at NC could run reviews past each other if you feel the score is going to be overly contentious?

My only real bones about this map was getting snagged on things a little too often. The lighting doesn't make me get too excited either, but it works well and there's nothing wrong with it. I'd agree with Hourences about the sounds (or lack of) though, too.

Overall though, it's a nice job and a nice job != 6.5.

PS Luggage, Interesting stuff about Karma Collision Primtives - I'm gonna read up some more on that stuff.

01-04-2003 04:35 PM MST
Rating: 8 
yeah i love the atmosphere here... always created in plutonic's maps and overall its very nice with some lovely architecture

01-04-2003 05:49 PM MST
Rating: 8 
worthy of its ownage certainly... I love the premise and it's execution as well. If post apocalyptic cities look this cool and crammed full of static meshes, I'm going to brave the fallout to have a good look around ^_^

01-04-2003 09:56 PM MST
Rating: 7 
its a worthy download
not as aesthetically pleasing as some have mentioned, but the 'cut and dried' gameplay is fine by me.

there's enough servers out there running dm-BATHROOM3XTR3M3V2617BUILD161BETA.unr with every mutator in the game for those of you who dont like it.

01-05-2003 04:39 PM MST
Rating: 7 
for me the theme is a bit boring...not that original....though A LOT MORE REFRESHING than all the maps you find now
if it wasnt so should be able to breath more fresh air imo

gameplay wise...its works fine...but a gosu player wont like it cause he doesnt get to use his dodging skills to max
architecture aint that complex either

good map....but not that great

01-05-2003 05:40 PM MST
Rating: 9 
Giving this map 6.5 is a travesty. This map looks and plays better than most of the CTF maps that shipped with UT2003 IMO.

I ask Prophet - have you ever tried to balance a non-symmetrical CTF map? It's damn near impossible. One base always has the upper hand. Then reviewers would bitch about the map being biased to one side.

This map is the most original user map I have played for UT2003 thus far.

01-05-2003 05:44 PM MST
Rating: 7 
I think this map is well-deserving of a 6.5/7

Definitely credit Plutonic for always being able to try out a new theme and put it together so realistically... the lights, the I-beams, the drill, etc... Nice relationship between open flag rooms and tighter, interconnected hallways.

Where this map bothers me is the sickness that plagues several other 2k3 maps, where it feels like a big mess... as though I was playing in a junkyard. Perhaps we were spoiled into thiking every map would always look clean with the low-poly limits in UT1, but I find myself visually overwhelmed while getting from one place to another. In other words, the map takes some time to learn not because the layout is complex but because you have to put some real effort into figuring out where to go terrain-wise.

01-06-2003 11:30 AM MST
Rating: 7 
All in all nice. But washed out lighting and no water sound in the pools. Got to fix the second one. I would give it an 8, but so its only a 7 for me. All in all a winner

01-07-2003 02:20 AM MST
Rating: 7 
I can definitely agree with BangOut and TossMonkey here. It's a good layout, original theme, and plays well. I like the flag rooms better than the narrow, crumbled ante-room, though the center is terrific.

The lighting is rather flat, and the textures drab. Though I guess you wouldn't expect to see neon colors in a bombed out mess! Nice models too. It feels totally original and that's not an easy thing to do.

I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that Plutonic isn't a big fan of the Flak Cannon since it's hidden at the bottom of a pool. That's a shame because the Flak Cannon's arcing shot would be ideal for lobbing over some of those hills!

01-09-2003 09:52 PM MST
Rating: 7 
I looked at the review scheme and since it is a nine system than this map falls at 7 or 7.5 area… which is IMHO not bad. What is odd is that why is it not a 10 system… it is very odd to me… Most everyone in the world use the 10 system and the 9 system is well weird… it is so weird it is not even used by USA ;) I wonder what made you guys decided on this. The fact that there are no perfect maps? That is true no map is perfect… many may argue this is false but I have not seen a perfect map.

Ok now to this map.

Plutonic is a good map designer, but in this map I think he went a few steps below his usual flare ( level ). The map is technically nice and the game-play is good, it is common… The visuals are flat in many areas. Let me explain this further… For example when you look far away into any part and look at all the structures etc… it looks all nice, but up closer where you actually fight it is pretty flat looking. (flat as in not detailed enough in spots) Terrain could have used more layers. The static meshes could have been skinned better. Even the lighting (which is more opinion now) could have been more moody darker in spots to give it the more underground look effect… lighting is a great tool to hide the things you did wrong in the visual design… or to concentrate the eye on something… right now it is all lit up very nicely without those nice dark spots “shadows” it lacks contrast.

I think this map deserves Ownage it is not the best map I have seen but it is one of the keepers.

My 2 cents…

01-10-2003 03:43 PM MST
Rating: 6 
Mmmm yes, you guys fail to realize a 6.5 in our reviews is around a 7 or 7.5 out of 10 for user ratings, since our schema is out of 9 total, and the user review makes up that extra 10th point...and don\'t criticize his score...if anything, look at the review.

BTW I give this a 6 rating since I get some weird mouse slowdown when I play the map...if I fix it I'll edit it :(

02-27-2003 05:33 AM MST
Rating: 7 
Mmmm yes, you guys fail to realize a 6.5 in our reviews is around a 7 or 7.5 out of 10 for user ratings, since our schema is out of 9 total, and the user review makes up that extra 10th point...and don't criticize his score...if anything, look at the review.
No, and no. The middle of a 9 point scale is 5. To me both 0 and 10 are 'special' scores... a 0 isn't worth calling a map, possibly not even working. A 10 is perfect, a map that appeals to just anyone.
When I am supposed to look at the review, not the score... why bother giving a score in the first place?
I think the problem is not everyone agees on what a certain score means. To some like the Prophet, a 6 is a very good score. To me it's just somewhat above average. I personally feel the map deserves a little more, but then again I tend to overrate maps. I think it's a 7~8.

01-26-2003 04:27 PM MST
Rating: 8 
Great looking map. A must have...

Prometheus NGI
01-30-2003 07:56 AM MST
Rating: 8 
theme= 9
gameplay= 8
mapping= 8

overall= 8

Best custom CTF map yet

01-31-2003 07:18 AM MST
Rating: 8 

imho the best ctf map.

Thx, Plutonic.

01-31-2003 05:53 PM MST
Rating: 9 
One of your best, Plutonic. It's too bad I don't see more UT work from you now, but I hope to see more maps like this in the future. Good going! I think this was worth more than a 6.5. See my rating. :-)

02-04-2003 01:21 PM MST
Rating: 7 
I had a problem with manuevering in the flag rooms, but the map looks great. I also don't think it was fair to knock off points for a mirror CTF. The rating system also depends on the scale used.

02-04-2003 11:20 PM MST
Rating: 6 
Bah, classic CTF layout with bunch of repetetive static meshes. I guess CTF gametype doesn't really inspire mappers to make something really original, and non-copy and paste.

David Spalinski
02-05-2003 05:57 PM MST
Rating: 7 
its ok, but didn't catch my interest much. I had fun, but got bored quickly. overall good, but doesn't have staying power...... uh does that sound weird??

02-22-2003 07:59 AM MST
Rating: 9 
This it the best CTF map you can play for UT or UT2003. Period.

03-02-2003 07:42 AM MST
Rating: 9 
This is a great Map. Plutonic = DOWNLOAD!!

03-02-2003 02:37 PM MST
Rating: 8 
A six-point-five map?
I voice my disagreement.
Eight at least, methinks.

]UBC[ McNite
04-06-2003 11:01 AM MDT
Rating: 8 
One of the best maps for CTF in UT2k3 up to now...

I do especially like the various ways to and fro the bases, it even has nice spots for waiting, and I dont think it will become boring even after hours (we will test that next weekend at a lan-party for sure).

Theme and graphics is performed pretty good, and while the eye is pleased with nice details of what was left by a catastrophy (just look at the ground where u run, its fantastically realistic) its not overloaded with eye-candy (like u get in some maps where you r distracted from the gameplay by the textures and environment.

Keep up the Great work!

05-18-2003 06:05 AM MDT
Rating: 8 
Perhaps ... you need to take a little time out and see how you play on the map!!! You know I enjoyed this map for various reasons, one its an excelent map design (Visual, and also gameplay). You know, I remember playing rocket arenas and I had the best fun blasting the living heck out of anyone who got in front of me (And vice versa!), now those maps were perfectly symetrical in design. I bet you even played a map like that (WE ALL HAVE!). Now how does this relate to Unearthed, some times the most simplistic layouts are the most effective, it allows the player to know exactly where they're going, it also (Get ready for it!) ... allows players to face of on each other quicker, it allows for more "intimate" fights ... great fun... and plays very well.

06-20-2003 09:27 PM MDT
Rating: 10 
Awesome map! I love maps that have destruction and meyham everywhere. This is "THE" C.T.F. that everyone should get. Two Thumbs Up!

06-21-2003 03:02 PM MDT
Rating: 9 
A definite keeper. Atmosphere in this map rocks and I agree whole heartily with what Plutonic says about the fix of a level designer. This is one of my favorite CTF maps. Keep up the good work Plutonic.

07-25-2003 03:40 AM MDT
Rating: 7 
This is hands down one of the best user created ut2k3 maps there is atleast to me it is but what do i know, aside from it being a tad to small its all good and when you order the bots to hold a position they actually do it! unlike other ctf maps

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